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JCL to delete component in a package

 
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:21 pm    Post subject: JCL to delete component in a package
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Hi Guys,

Just wanted to know if there is any possibility of creating a JCL that deletes a member from a package just like the way changeman does
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Nic Clouston

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:58 pm    Post subject:
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This is totally unclear. Are you using some version control system other than Changeman and you want to replicate the batch deletion? Or are you using Changeman and you want to do your deletes in a batch job? Or something else?

What you have probably not done is refer to the documentation, referred to the online help, referred to your colleagues, read the menu options properly, read the screens properly to see the BATCH option.

In any case, I doubt that this is a JCL question but some product question.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:00 pm    Post subject:
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since changeman submits jcl that it generates based on interactions with the gui,
of course you can create your own job and submit it.

if you would investigate the subfiles within the job in sdsf or whatever you use,
you can find the jcl that was submitted.

it is not located where the jcl spools, but within the second or third sub.spool file (i forget)-

but the fact that you do not know that, or have found it on your own,
leads me to suggest that you do not do it,
at least until your experience and skills level have greatly improved.
you run the risk of doing damage to the package, or the database.

besids, the reason the gui was bought and paid for
is to insure that all the users submit good jcl,
and possibly more importantly,
authorized actions.

the time you think that you are saving by skiipping the gui,
maybe used up looking for a new job.
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steve-myers

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject:
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  • JCL cannot manipulate data in any way. In other words, "JCL" cannot perform this task. Only programs that operate in an environment specified by JCL can perform this task.
  • Programs like the Changeman product you mentioned use standard programs like an Assembler, compilers and the Binder to affect the binary form of package. In some simple cases a Changeman will use selected low level APIs such as the STOW function to delete a member of a PDS.
  • If you direct Changeman to remove a component from a package, it most likely will use the Binder to remove the component from load modules and the STOW function to delete entire members.
  • Certainly you can simulate this using ordinary programs outside of Changeman. though you must understand how Changeman inserts the component into the package.
  • You should be aware that Changeman will reinsert the component the next time it rebuilds the package. So you should be doing this through Changeman.
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Rohit Umarjikar

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:24 pm    Post subject:
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It should not be done through local batch, I don't think that's even permitted to all RACF ID by any site. Why do you need to do this at first place?
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:50 am    Post subject:
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Nic Clouston wrote:
This is totally unclear. Are you using some version control system other than Changeman and you want to replicate the batch deletion? Or are you using Changeman and you want to do your deletes in a batch job? Or something else?

What you have probably not done is refer to the documentation, referred to the online help, referred to your colleagues, read the menu options properly, read the screens properly to see the BATCH option.

In any case, I doubt that this is a JCL question but some product question.


Hi Nic,

I am using changeman and I would like to know how the deletion process takes place. Like wether a batch job is submitted or an assembler is invoked. I wanna replicate the entire process. Also I would like to know wether we can call the changeman delete option through REXX
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:53 am    Post subject:
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dbzTHEdinosauer wrote:
since changeman submits jcl that it generates based on interactions with the gui,
of course you can create your own job and submit it.

if you would investigate the subfiles within the job in sdsf or whatever you use,
you can find the jcl that was submitted.

it is not located where the jcl spools, but within the second or third sub.spool file (i forget)-

but the fact that you do not know that, or have found it on your own,
leads me to suggest that you do not do it,
at least until your experience and skills level have greatly improved.
you run the risk of doing damage to the package, or the database.

besids, the reason the gui was bought and paid for
is to insure that all the users submit good jcl,
and possibly more importantly,
authorized actions.

the time you think that you are saving by skiipping the gui,
maybe used up looking for a new job.


Hi dbzTHEdinosauer,

I want to replicate the exact action that the changeman delete function performs. The question that I have is how do I go about it. I am un clear on the fact wether the delete option is performed via a batch job( just like staging) or there are some rexx or assembler involved in that. Please guide as to how to approach this.
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:56 am    Post subject:
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steve-myers wrote:
  • JCL cannot manipulate data in any way. In other words, "JCL" cannot perform this task. Only programs that operate in an environment specified by JCL can perform this task.
  • Programs like the Changeman product you mentioned use standard programs like an Assembler, compilers and the Binder to affect the binary form of package. In some simple cases a Changeman will use selected low level APIs such as the STOW function to delete a member of a PDS.
  • If you direct Changeman to remove a component from a package, it most likely will use the Binder to remove the component from load modules and the STOW function to delete entire members.
  • Certainly you can simulate this using ordinary programs outside of Changeman. though you must understand how Changeman inserts the component into the package.
  • You should be aware that Changeman will reinsert the component the next time it rebuilds the package. So you should be doing this through Changeman.


Hi steve-myers,

Thanks for the info. Like you have mentioned over here as the changeman can be directed to perform the action like delete a member from a package, is there some other way we can do that eg. can we call a changeman function via REXX ?
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject:
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Rohit Umarjikar wrote:
It should not be done through local batch, I don't think that's even permitted to all RACF ID by any site. Why do you need to do this at first place?


Hi Rohit,

Yes i am aware of the fact that it should not be done via local batch and the privileges to do so are also not provided. My query here is can we create a similar scenario where we can perform the same action as the changeman does or can we invoke the changeman function in some other manner apart from doing it directly
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Robert Sample

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:08 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
I wanna replicate the entire process.
Well, you're on your own then. We do not recommend re-inventing the wheel, and Changeman has a perfectly good process to do what you want, so there's no reason for you to try to replicate it. Furthermore, the vendor is not likely to provide you any information about how the various processes are done within the software; both copyright and intellectual property laws will impact what you want to do.

Give up on your idea and find some real work to do instead of trying to replicate existing software.
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:11 am    Post subject:
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Robert Sample wrote:
Quote:
I wanna replicate the entire process.
Well, you're on your own then. We do not recommend re-inventing the wheel, and Changeman has a perfectly good process to do what you want, so there's no reason for you to try to replicate it. Furthermore, the vendor is not likely to provide you any information about how the various processes are done within the software; both copyright and intellectual property laws will impact what you want to do.

Give up on your idea and find some real work to do instead of trying to replicate existing software.


Robert,

I didn't mean to replicate the entire software! That would be plain meaningless and would make me a d***he. icon_rolleyes.gif
I just want to know how the deletion of a member from a package takes place and would like to call the same function but not through the GUI but via a JCL or REXX , if it's possible
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Robert Sample

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
but via a JCL or REXX , if it's possible
Most vendor software has some sort of manual giving the API specifications for interacting with the software from a program. If you posted on this forum without looking at that manual, that was your FIRST mistake -- ALWAYS look at the vendor's documentation before posting any question about vendor software. And if you looked without finding anything, then that's a pretty good clue to you that what you want to do cannot be done. And the SECOND place to check, again BEFORE posting to a forum, is with the vendor support group -- they know the software a whole lot better than anyone on a forum.

And saying "via a JCL" indicates you do NOT belong on this forum -- it is for professional IT persons, and saying "via a JCL" indicates that you are a beginner or student and should post on that forum instead of this one. JCL allocates resource and invokes programs -- and that is all it does; JCL cannot, by itself, do a whole lot.

Replicating the software, replicating the delete function of the software -- either way, you are wanting to do something that is already available from the vendor and hence there is absolutely no reason for us to help you with that.
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject:
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[/quote].

And saying "via a JCL" indicates you do NOT belong on this forum -- it is for professional IT persons, and saying "via a JCL" indicates that you are a beginner or student and should post on that forum instead of this one. JCL allocates resource and invokes programs -- and that is all it does; JCL cannot, by itself, do a whole lot.
.[/quote]

Hi Robert,

Please excuse me for the in appropriate way of putting down what I wanted to express. I do understand that JCL allocates resources and invokes program, so I wanted to know if there is any program that can be invoked which performs the changeman delete function. Again the program that I am referring here is what changeman actually uses.

Also please share the link for the vendor documentation, just to be sure that I had referred the correct document.

In any way I do not want to replicate the function of the software, rather I would like to know how to invoke it apart from directly accessing it from the GUI.
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Robert Sample

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:46 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Also please share the link for the vendor documentation, just to be sure that I had referred the correct document.
Not all vendor documentation is available online and Changeman appears to be one of those products. If your site has a license for the product, you can log on to the vendor support site and download (or view) the documentation yourself. As my site does not use the product, I do not have any access to the documentation.
Quote:
I would like to know how to invoke it apart from directly accessing it from the GUI
Again, this may -- or may not -- be possible with this particular product. You need to find and read the documentation to determine this, or contact the vendor support group (which you can do as long as your site has a license for the product).

I refer you to Beginner's and Students Forum as a much more appropriate place for you. Since you apparently cannot do anything by yourself -- evidenced by your request for me to provide you a link to the vendor documentation -- you don't belong on this forum.
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sundaram.naveen
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:04 pm    Post subject:
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[quote="Robert Sample"]
Quote:
Also please share the link for the vendor documentation, just to be sure that I had referred the correct document.

Quote:

Since you apparently cannot do anything by yourself -- evidenced by your request for me to provide you a link to the vendor documentation -- you don't belong on this forum.


Hi Robert,

I had mentioned that I have referred the manual that was provided to our team from the vendor and since I couldn't find what I had searched for I posted it as a query here.

Anyway Thank you so much for your assistance Robert. icon_smile.gif
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