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Making a shift from developers profile to Mainframe Testing

 
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vikas.gupta

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Joined: 16 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Making a shift from developers profile to Mainframe Testing
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Hi all
I am a mainframe developer with two years of Experience in Developers Profile. I want to know that should i a make a transition to Mainframe testing.
And what all are the merits and demerits of making this move?
The profile of mainframe testing is preparing the system test cases, and then testing the same.
Do we get more domain knowledge in Testing projects as compared to development projects ?
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PeD

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Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject:
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You must have order, method and discipline.
A special mind : always be suspicious, never thinking that a little thing is not a consequence of a change in program.
Every non expected result must be reported and reported with documentation ( using Quality Center or other tools ).

They are various kind of tests : integration tests, performance tests, volume tests, regression tests, stress tests. …..

You can test a mall cluster of programs or a whole day or night of production. You need to know the expected results, discuss with business analysts, with system team, with Capacity team, ….
And you will have to know a lot of tools or technic : Strobe, File Aid, Ecomp, CA7, report Excel, Word, DB2, CICS, zOS, Sort, backup, recovery, etc etc

Maybe you will want to build some proper tools in REXX, VBA, panel, routines to help you in your work.

It is a wonderful world.

There is not a lot of “bravo” if it is working, there is a lot of danger if it is not working in production. …

But one thing you have to know : tests are crucial, essential, but you are at the end of the chain : so if previous team have delay, you will also start later, but I know by experience that the final date, the launch date will not be delayed and then the focus is on you.


I repeat : “code” is nothing. Correctly testing a system is great !!!!
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Anuj Dhawan

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Joined: 22 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject:
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Well,

It's a question of personal choice. Lately I was also asked for this so would like to comment here... well, again it's a personal perception of things...my answer was no.

Quote:
Do we get more domain knowledge in Testing projects as compared to development projects ?
I don't think so, it would happen; you might get a good knowledge of "cycle-runs" of your system but for in depth knwoledge, at component level, is just not possible because testing team is always too busy with cycle-runs here at my shop, whenever they get abend they just route to us..even such an abend "U4038: file LRECL mismatch"..grin..Pehaps just because they are just starting.
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PeD

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PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject:
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But the added value is when the tester with a developer background is able - not to just pass the problem to others - but make a pertinent analysis, take good actions and not staying blocked in the tests cycle.

The risk is high, the responsibility is high.
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jaspal

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 27, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject:
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Hi Vikas,

well i think you have valuable suggestions from different expert who drived through their carriers starting from mainframes.

to develop is something which make you feel you did something new no one ever did like that.....
1). Requirement gathering
2). Talking to business and technology directly
3). Designing a database, designing a test
4). Build a system.

Now come toward testing that development team does:
1) Unit testing
2). system testing
3). Integration testing
4). regression testing
5), UAT testing
6) pre-implementation
7). roll-out
8). post implementation..

Now what you feel what is the best development or just testing.


"you can learn testing along with development , but can't learn development along with testing only "
)
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ksk

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Joined: 08 Jun 2006
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject:
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Vikas,

What is the reason behind to make a shift into Testing from Development as you have already 2 years of expereince in development. I have seen some people (and they asked me for the same) who thinks Testing is easy and Development is hard (this is comparision to Mainframes Testing) and wants to make shift to testing to have a cool life.

Is this the reason or anything else behind your thinking?

Regards,
KSK
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Mahesh Srivatsavi

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Joined: 09 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:26 pm    Post subject: Hi
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I am also in the similar transition,Worked as a mainframe developer for two years,due to Project Constraints I was made to take up Mainframe testing.
At starting when I joined Mainframe testing as every one I have similar Perception that testing is easy and very cool job and any one can do that but later on I came to know that it is not.

Through my experience I found the following merits in Mainframe testing.

1)Need to have a through knowledge of end to end flow of the application.
(So this helps to know the overall application and how it runs).
2)we have to gothrough whole use cases,Processes and discuss with the Business analysts,Developers,Peers how the application is going to satisfy user requirements and accordingly we need to prepare test design and test cases.
3)Though the testers job is to find the defects and raise to the developer team , sometimes they need to solve abends by themselves and then go for developers help.
4)There will be some projects in which the front end will be java and the backend will be mainframe at time it is testers responsibility to whome to assign the defect and in some instances it may be due to environment issues the errors may crop up.(Tester has to take up responsibility).
5)The project may delay due to some reasons but the end date will be fixed here comes the role of tester , he has to test every thing in the given time and the same time assure the quality of the software.
6)A company can assure the quality product to the client only when it undergone the complete process of testing.

Atlast I conclude both mainframe developing and testing has equal importance both has their own Pros and cons.

It is a advise to the people donot come from development to testing thinking Mainframe testing is cool than compared to development(It is merely misconception).
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Aaru

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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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Location: Chennai, India

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Making a shift from developers profile to Mainfram
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Hi,

Quote:
It's a question of personal choice. Lately I was also asked for this so would like to comment here... well, again it's a personal perception of things...my answer was no.


I agree to Anuj, and i would like to comment as i have worked on both development and testing projects.

- I never got a chance to use my BRAIN when i was put in a testing project. But the reverse happened in a develpment project and i liked it. I think Fixing a bug is difficult than reporting a Bug.

- Yep, you will get some domain knowledge when you write functional test cases and test it, Not when you just laern some tools and do manual testing.

DEVELOPERS TEST BUT TESTERS DO NOT DEVELOP.
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PeD

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
DEVELOPERS TEST BUT TESTERS DO NOT DEVELOP.

I can see, every day, in my Testing team where we collect all upgrades-modifications-... to run a full integration test that DEVELOPERS DO NOT TEST AS THEY HAVE TO DO IT.
They have a poor knowledge of what a test must cover, and OK most of the time they don't have the tools to do that.

But don't tell me developers always are good testers.
It is my day work.

Pierre
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expat

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Joined: 14 Mar 2007
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Location: Back in jolly old England

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject:
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And I won't ask about the night job icon_lol.gif
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muthuvel

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Joined: 29 Nov 2005
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Location: Chennai

PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 6:18 pm    Post subject:
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It finally seems to be a debate of Development Vs Testing icon_lol.gif

Every Job has its own merits and demerits
"DO WHAT YOUR ARE COMFORTABLE IN DOING" icon_neutral.gif
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dick scherrer

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Joined: 23 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:45 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

Quote:
But don't tell me developers always are good testers.
Agreed. Good developers will test their code well. Unfortunately, the population of good developers is shrinking. . . And, conversely, the population of rather incompetent developers is rapidly increasing.

As more groups are willing to deploy code that doesn't even work, i believe a separate testing group will be necessary to survive implementation. . . icon_neutral.gif It is often better to meet the deadline with code that fails - delivering non-working code "on time" and fixing/re-writing it later often has less penalty than delivering a fully working application late icon_confused.gif
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PeD

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject:
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I want to add that it is not always the developer's fault.
Sometimes they do not have the right tools or environment ( testing environment set up is not an easy task - often part of production elements are missing ).

Also I firmly believe that there is a lack of education in testing.
Not only in IT world.
See around all stuff not working in industry, in instrument, toys, ...
not only economy on the product, but lack of testing, or lack on "how to test".

Don' forget also that testers are sometimes ( like me ) former developer.
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Terry Heinze

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Joined: 14 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:09 am    Post subject:
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"It is often better to meet the deadline with code that fails - delivering non-working code "on time" and fixing/re-writing it later often has less penalty than delivering a fully working application late."
Reminds me of one of my favorite sayings, "If you don't have time to do it right, when will you have time to do it over?!"
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PeD

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 12:38 am    Post subject:
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Production stability? Tell that to the management and the clients !!!
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Aaru

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Joined: 03 Jul 2007
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Location: Chennai, India

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply to: Making a shift from developers profile to Mainfram
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Quote:
Agreed. Good developers will test their code well. Unfortunately, the population of good developers is shrinking. . . And, conversely, the population of rather incompetent developers is rapidly increasing.


Very True icon_sad.gif
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new2cobol

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:04 pm    Post subject:
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Been on both sides of the table... was a tester for 2 years and then developer for 4. Both having merits and demerits, but I wish I was in development before testing. The mind set in testing being only focussed towards functionality rather than technical complexity, reusability or efficiency. Was a silent member in design meetings then. Now when I took temporary charge of a testing team, we were able to provide a lot of input which made designs efficient nad impacts known earlier.

And now back to doing development again... icon_smile.gif The cycle never ends...
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partha

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject:
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As per the current market scenario in INDIA, the opportunity for Software testing is growing at a faster rate than the development. In that case it is better to Switch to testing field, as always there is a posibility of switching back to Development field from testing.
icon_wink.gif
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