Portal | Manuals | References | Downloads | Info | Programs | JCLs | Mainframe wiki | Quick Ref
IBM Mainframe Forum Index
 
Register
 
IBM Mainframe Forum Index Mainframe: Search IBM Mainframe Forum: FAQ Memberlist Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in
 
Consolidate common questions
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    IBMMAINFRAMES.com Support Forums -> Suggestions & Feedback
View previous topic :: :: View next topic  
Author Message
jasorn
Warnings : 1

Active User


Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:43 am    Post subject: Re: Reply to: Consolidate common questions
Reply with quote

enrico-sorichetti wrote:
Quote:
RTFM is just an insensitive reply in my view.


that' s just Your view ...
I am getting really fed up with all this PC horse manure

once upon a time ...
RTFM and come back after You have done a bit of homework was the usual answer
and nobody ever complained about it

for what reason should we spend our time and share our experience gained by RTFM
for people who just do not care and want a simple way out of their problems

sooner or later they should start learning to RTFM icon_cool.gif


When replying to your earlier post, I was going to say, "Unless it's done with a spiteful tone." and look for an example. However, this quote is the perfect example and is exactly the kind of thing I think is less than helpful. I do know my opinion isn't shared by all.

I grew up on RTFM too and I turned out fine! However, I think the time has come that this attitude leave the help forums. Especially for people new to the community, whether experienced or not.

The experienced will have already RTFM or will ask for it. The others will simply tend to be put off by the gruffness.

Why would I spend my time berating someone to RFTM? Especially if I'm irritated they're asking questions without having searched first? If I'm truly trying to help, I see this as a chance for me to really help, starting with helping them ask a decent question.

Perhaps in my capacity of helping people outside of this forum and directing them to ask questions here, more people tell me, "I'm not asking questions there, they're mean.", more than is known.

Relating this to help forums for other platforms, I think linux is a reasonable comparison. To a large extent the distros which attract the most new people are the ones who have shifted from "RTFM" to easing people into understanding how to help themselves before asking questions.

I think that's a model well worth modelling!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

jasorn
Warnings : 1

Active User


Joined: 12 Jul 2006
Posts: 184
Location: USA

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:59 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

It occurs to me that I didn't look to see if this forum prefer I reply to all in one post or individually. Forgive me if I took the wrong approach.

Rohit Umarjikar wrote:
You join the class to learn cics jcl and all other stuff, if you have money problems then mainframes ain’t a choice for you

Interestingly enough, this is a problem expressed at SHARE. Specifically, that many see this a real problem. That we need to shift to it be able to learn the mainframe at almost no cost, which is the case on just about every other platform.

I make it a habit of suggesting to IBMers they make some sort of system available for no cost for anyone to learn at home. Normally, this suggestion is laughed off. But recently, IBMers have been replying that they do see this as an issue and would like to figure out how to do that and still protect their IP.

I think they are coming around to understanding that if we're going to address the real issue that 29% of mainframers are > 60 while only 7% are < 30, we need to get zos into the hands of young kids with no real requirements including cost or even needing to join a program. College might even be too late.

I discussed this with several people regarding Zowe, which looks like a great framework for the devops crowd, it still requires zos. I feel pretty strongly more and more see this as an issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rohit Umarjikar

Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 2244
Location: NY,USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: I'm finding this discussion interesting and hope I don't
Reply with quote

Quote:
Again, it can be stated that we're not here to code for you in a polite manner. I've found that when people are mentored in this fashion they change for the better. It's different when it becomes habit.

But if you're volunteering your time for a help forum and don't feel you have the time for that, why take time to reply rudely instead of not replying at all?


Sometimes they are rude but that is how one gets learn to not make a mistake next time else people gets into the bad Habit of repeating it over and over and that has happened in past. So people help but if some replies seems rude then is that a big Deal even if its for betterment of OP?
Ain't OP not suppose to follow forum rules? I mean did you not seen post where OPs replies are rude to them who help? I am sure you will find many if you browse them.
Here is a quick link to the forum rules .. Everyone makes efforts to follow them and OP is required to do too , why exception ( any forum for that matter) ?

Forum Rules -- >Search before Post
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
RahulG31

Active User


Joined: 20 Dec 2014
Posts: 447
Location: USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Consolidate common questions
Reply with quote

Quote:
I thnk I'll see my way out the door. You guys have turned into a bunch of dicks.


A rude reply to probably the most polite person on this forum:

http://ibmmainframes.com/viewtopic.php?p=344547&highlight=#344547

.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rohit Umarjikar

Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 2244
Location: NY,USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:45 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

RahulG31, Great catch!! That's probably why He got Warned.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
View previous topic :: :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    IBMMAINFRAMES.com Support Forums -> Suggestions & Feedback All times are GMT + 6 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 

Search our Forum:

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Posted
No new posts To get the count of PDS data sets whi... Vignesh Sid JCL & VSAM 4 Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:38 pm
No new posts Comp interview questions Deepak1518780 Mainframe Interview Questions 5 Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:26 pm
No new posts A couple of Interview Questions on Co... viplavmodi36 Mainframe Interview Questions 5 Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:21 pm
No new posts Mainframe Interview Questions CICS,CO... akshathan Mainframe Interview Questions 6 Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:38 pm
No new posts Viewing executing process in NDM .. q... Debb.Brant IBM Tools 0 Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:55 pm

Facebook
Back to Top
 
Job Vacancies | Forum Rules | Bookmarks | Subscriptions | FAQ | Polls | Contact Us