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Regarding 'TSO OUTPUT jobname(jobid)'

 
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Arunkumar Chandrasekaran

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 3:53 pm    Post subject: Regarding 'TSO OUTPUT jobname(jobid)'
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Hi,

Once if we print one job's (present in SDSF) output using 'TSO OUTPUT' command in TSO terminal , will the job removed from spool???


I tried 'TSO OUTPUT' for one job.But after the complete execution of the command I couldn't find the job in spool (SDSF).What is happeneng here actually???


Please let me know if i am missing anything here??


Thanks,
Arun
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Nic Clouston

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Regarding 'TSO OUTPUT jobname(jobid)'
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Did you look up the manual?
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Terry Heinze

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:22 pm    Post subject:
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... or ===> tso help output
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steve-myers

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 10:37 pm    Post subject:
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Mr. Clouston and Mr. Heinze both made valid suggestions.

Few people use the TSO OUTPUT command and are really all that familiar with the way it functions, so you should open the "TSO/E Command Reference" manual for your z/OS release and see what it says.

The online help for OUTPUT seems to say you need to specify the KEEP option keyword to retain data sets displayed by OUTPUT.
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daveporcelan

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:06 pm    Post subject:
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You may want to use:

PRT SYSOUT
fill in screen and press enter
PRT CLOSE

This works well for me.

I have never used TSO OUTPUT before.
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don.leahy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 3:27 am    Post subject:
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Wow! I haven't used the TSO OUTPUT command in over 20 years.

If I recall correctly, you have to use HOLD KEEP options to prevent the job from being deleted from the Spool.
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Arunkumar Chandrasekaran

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:27 pm    Post subject:
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Hi all,

Thanks for your response.Now I confirmed once OUTPUT of one JOB is printed in terminal using 'TSO OUTPUT' the job will be removed from spool.


But here I want to know why it is like that?? I believe SDSF keeps the excuted job for a period of time.But Why it is removed once we uesed 'TSO OUTPUT' command.

I also gone thru 'TSO command reference'.But it didnt answer my question.
My question is we just extracting the data from spool and displaying it in terminal.So, What is the need for deleting here.I know I am missing something basically about SDSF.But What is that???


Thanks,
Arun
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daveporcelan

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 6:28 pm    Post subject:
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Arun,

First, did you read what steve-meyers wrote:
Quote:
The online help for OUTPUT seems to say you need to specify the KEEP option keyword to retain data sets displayed by OUTPUT.


Second, I have 28 years experience, and have never (that I can recall) used this command. don.lehey has not used it in twenty years. Steve-meyers, who has more experience than both don and I is not familiar with the command. What does this tell you?

Your signature says:
Quote:
Happy learning!!!!


Now learn from this:
1) I have a situation, and tried to resolve it with the TSO OUTPUT command.
2) The results are not what I expected
3) I posted on a forum, where several experts knew little of this command
4) Maybe I should scrap this approach and try another
5) Explain on the forum, what I am trying to achieve (rather than how), and see what happens.
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don.leahy

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:42 pm    Post subject:
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There is also option 3.8, known informally as the "Outlist utility". That is another old-school way to handle job output.

When I first started, the OUTPUT command was the recommended method, and 3.8 was considered something newfangled.

When it first came out, SDSF was limited to Operations personnel in many shops.
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Arunkumar Chandrasekaran

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:08 pm    Post subject:
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Hi all,

Actually here my question is not at all how to save the output of a job.I know how to handle it using TSO OUTPUT command for my requirement.I know by giving KEEP keyword we can retain the job in SDSF.

My Question is,

Why after 'TSO OUTPUT', job is removed from SDSF?.Let me explain it another way,

What I am expecting is that a job should be deleted from SDSF only it is purged.Where as here I am doing a process (printing here) using the output
of job.I am not telling anything about removing the job from SDSF.

But after printing job is removed.What is the link between printing output and removing job from spool.It looks like , only reason to keep the job in SDSF is printing its output in TSO.


I know something basic I am missing to understand about SDSF.May be it seems crazy.But I just want to understand.

Even we have KEEP keyword ,why the command is working like that by default??


Thanks,
Arun
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Arunkumar Chandrasekaran

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:16 pm    Post subject:
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Moreover I am not trying to achieve anything using that.I am asking this just for my understanding.
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expat

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:17 pm    Post subject:
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Have you spoken to YOUR site support people to find out the defaults at your site.

It may be simply that the default of OUTPUT is an immediate job purge class. Maybe the actions taken depend on the job name or sysout class or whatever.

Questions that only people at your site can answer.
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steve-myers

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:43 pm    Post subject:
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I'm just guessing here, but ...

The TSO OUTPUT command goes back to the very first release of TSO in the very late 1960s or very early 1970s. Disk storage in those days was both very expensive (relative to the way things are today) and very limited in capacity. The NOKEEP default may have been an attempt to release storage as soon as possible, which was a laudable goal then, though less valuable today.
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Bill Woodger

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Regarding 'TSO OUTPUT jobname(jobid)'
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It is normal that the completion of the printing of a spool dataset is that it is purged.

You can also keep a spool dataset when printing is completed, but the default is to purge it.

SDSF is just a tool to look at spool datasets. It is not the spool itself. If something or someone purges a dataset, you won't see it with SDSF anymore. A spool dataset is not "in" SDSF, SDSF allowing you to look at it conveniently, and manage it, whilst it is in the spool.

Once it is not in the spool, you can no longer look at it with SDSF (or anything else).
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steve-myers

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 3:07 am    Post subject:
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Not only that, but most TSO users were using the relatively slow 2741 printer/keyboard type terminal; most output was too slow to bother with. Not only that, in systems with HASP or ASP, preparing JCL to prevent HASP or ASP from grabbing the output was moderately difficult. I seem to recall problems submitting jobs to HASP or ASP, too. It didn't work reasonably seamlessly until MVS in the middle 1970s.
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steve-myers

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:42 pm    Post subject:
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don.leahy wrote:
There is also option 3.8, known informally as the "Outlist utility". That is another old-school way to handle job output. ...
3.8 is just an ISPF shell around the OUTPUT command for those shops too cheap to provide SDSF.
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vasanthz

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:19 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

I used to run jobs & the output would be in spool.
Sometimes when the output needs to be archived I used the command O infront of the job to route it to the SAR output class.

My guess is, the working of output command is similar to coding a MSGCLASS statement after the job has executed.

It simply routes the output to another location. So once you issue a OUTPUT command the joblog is routed from SDSF to another place defined on the output command.
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Arunkumar Chandrasekaran

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2014 11:52 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks all for your responses.Now It makes some sense to me icon_cool.gif
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