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Extract matching and non matching recs using SORT
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:18 pm    Post subject:
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Pandora-Box wrote:
Is there no SYNCSORT Developer in forum thats sad :'(
Alissa is there but as Bill said, she logs-in from time-to-time.
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

Quote:
Not sure why the 1.4 documentation does not mention about this enhancement


It is in my 1.4 doc ~

Quote:
The join facility, controlled by the JOINKEYS, JOIN, and REFORMAT control statements, joins records from two source files
.
.
.
Specification of the placement of the data fields within the record created by the join operation is provided through the REFORMAT control statement
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Pandora-Box

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:36 pm    Post subject:
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Would be pretty happy if get a chair to sit near those experts and influence my knowledge icon_smile.gif so that I could test & answer SYNCSORT queries like Arul does

But attimes I wonder how person could know so much things so that he writes a big manual icon_eek.gif

Yes Alissa is helpful once I mailed her when I was using SYNCSORT in my shop she very immediately helped with manuals

Ofcourse all should be providing those info which she asks for
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Arun Raj

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:22 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
It is in my 1.4 doc ~
Hi dick,

I am afraid my 1.4 manual does not have the "?" as well as "JNFnCNTL" support details. icon_confused.gif I had sent an email to Syncsort support asking for any documentation and they responded saying that a ZAP is available to add these enhancements to even 1.3.2, but nothing on the documentation part.
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Bill Woodger

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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Extract matching and non matching recs using SORT
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Unfortunately, the thing about "undocumented features" is that they don't appear in the manual. I'd seen a couple of references elsewhere so asked Alissa about the JNFnCNTLs. I didn't know about the ?, and don't know if it is in the "patch", or only available above 1.4.0.
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Dale Robertson

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:06 am    Post subject:
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Pandora-Box wrote:
Is there no SYNCSORT Developer in forum thats sad :'(

A person to share us new logic and commands of the latest version will come in handy for all users


What would you like to know? I've been doing SyncSort for roughly 35 years.

Actually most of the extremely difficult items in SyncSort really should be done in a high-level language. The best is SAS in order to save yourself a boatload of grief including the elimination of extremely cryptic code. The main item that SAS replaces is Boolean Algebraic items like joins. But the secondary thing that SAS replaces is merges.

SyncSort/DFSORT merges aren't real merges like merging from a 4 lane highway to a 3 lane highway. They are interleaves like shuffling a card deck. SAS does real merges and in fact does SQL which can get tricky unless you understand the difference between a merge with/without cartessian coordinates.

Pandora,

This big thing is to use the right tool for the job. Never use a crescent wrench to hammer a nail!!

So for joins you really never should use SyncSort. You should use SAS if you have it.

r

"Baby, I'm going to do some stitching like you've never seen before!!"
--Hawkeye Pearce - M.A.S.H.

Edited to avoid Copyright issues.
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daveporcelan

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:28 am    Post subject:
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Dale,

Quote:
So for joins you really never should use SyncSort. You should use SAS if you have it


That is really a matter of opinion. I would give the exact opposite advice.

I would not touch SAS with a ten foot pole.

I find it difficult to work with, and never need it.

I think the functionality of Syncsort is excellent. The manuals however are pretty crappy.

I think it IS the right tool for joins.
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Dale Robertson

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject:
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daveporcelan wrote:
Dale,

Quote:
So for joins you really never should use SyncSort. You should use SAS if you have it


That is really a matter of opinion. I would give the exact opposite advice.

I would not touch SAS with a ten foot pole.

I find it difficult to work with, and never need it.

I think the functionality of Syncsort is excellent. The manuals however are pretty crappy.

I think it IS the right tool for joins.


Dave,

For simple 2-way joins Syncsort is probably just fine and in fact can save a programmer a bit more coding if he's only going to create an output sequential file. Anything more complicated then a programmer might think twice and realize that SAS uses a pretty good version of SQL which is very functional and not really as difficult as all that.

As for the manuals on joins they might be a bit cumbersome however with practice - and let's face it that's the key - a programmer can usually get along just fine.

r

"I'm going to fix it with my crescent hammer."
--Submariner Creed.

"The CIA has great benefits but you have to keep from getting killed. You see that's the key to the benefits program."
--Vince Ricardo [Peter Falk] - The Inlaws
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Dale Robertson

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: Reply to: Extract matching and non matching recs using S
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Bill Woodger wrote:
SORT topics here outnumber SAS topics perhaps 50 to one. I can't remember a SAS topic where someone wanted to do a JOIN.

If SAS has special traffic-control features, fine, but we've not had any questions on that either.

Opinion is not what this site is about.

SyncSort manuals are copyright. If you have SyncSort manuals as an individual, they are not for distribution.


Bill,

Well you should have some questions.

That's one of the main items I see on this site is opinions. Dave just gave his. I used to think the way Dave does too.

SyncSort manuals are most assuredly for distribution - if the programmer or company that the programmer works for has the product!!!! They are just not for sale except from SyncSort. That's a fact not an opinion. If you don't believe it then call and ask.

Whoops! The thing about SyncSort these days is that they are now controlled by lawyers not technicians like in the olden days. So who knows any longer. What's a programmer to do with his old manuals - a minus one and beyond?

All kidding aside, erring to caution is probably best as you alluded to. If a programmer works for a company with the product then by rights he should simply talk to his sales rep and download a copy of the Programmer's Guide and the Installation Guide to his work P.C.

r

"I'm getting an upset mind balance."
--Author Carl Deuker

"Calm yourself General Vladimirov."
--First Secretary - Firefox.

"Calm myself? Calm myself? When your stupidity, your stupidity..."
--General Vladimirov.
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:24 am    Post subject:
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Hello,

SAS has incerdible processing power for functional/logical/statistical/etc "things". I have not yet seen where it is a good choice for massive amounts of data (hundreds of millions and billions of records) being processed. If one is using lots of data (and this is more and more common), i seriously doubt SAS can even come close to Syncsort's performance. SQL notoriously takes more internal cycles then other forms os ordering data. DB2 for example no longer uses DB2 code to sort - it now invokes DFSORT under the covers.

I have to go with using Syncsort over SAS for big merging.
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Dale Robertson

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject:
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dick scherrer wrote:
Hello,

SAS has incerdible processing power for functional/logical/statistical/etc "things". I have not yet seen where it is a good choice for massive amounts of data (hundreds of millions and billions of records) being processed. If one is using lots of data (and this is more and more common), i seriously doubt SAS can even come close to Syncsort's performance. SQL notoriously takes more internal cycles then other forms os ordering data. DB2 for example no longer uses DB2 code to sort - it now invokes DFSORT under the covers.

I have to go with using Syncsort over SAS for big merging.


That's the thing!!! SAS invokes SyncSort!!! And in fact SAS uses SyncSort's Accelerator called PROC SYNCSORT which is even better.

Some years ago I did a quick and dirty comparison of approx 30M rows. I used SAS's sort - which sucks - and it took upwards of half an hour of elapsed time to run. SyncSort took 13 minutes and PROC SYNCSORT took 6 minutes!!

But that's not the big thing actually that I was at first writing about. I was writing about complicated items like multiple joins from multiple files where a programmer can do things like install indexes.

As for large files of course a programmer must do his best to trim things down before doing really fancy coding and of course that's where utilities like SyncSort or GENER or even FILEMAX comes in.

r
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:50 am    Post subject:
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Hi Guys,

It looks like we've gone somewhat away from the topic . . .

I believe what was asked has been more than answered . . .

Might we all discontinue?

d
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GaganGarg

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Extract matching and non matching recs using SORT
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Sorry for replying on the older post. But for others information, "?" is not working with "SYNCSORT FOR Z/OS 1.4.0.1R"

Code:

SYNCSORT FOR Z/OS  1.4.0.1R    U.S. PATENTS: XXXXXXX, XXXXXXX   (C) 2010 SYNCSO
                                           XXXXXXX SYSTEM   z/OS   1.12.0     
SYNCSORT LICENSED FOR CPU SERIAL NUMBER YYYYYY, MODEL ZZZZZZZ             LICEN
SYSIN :                                                                       
  JOINKEYS FILE=F1,FIELDS=(1,1,A)                                             
  JOINKEYS FILE=F2,FIELDS=(1,1,A)                                             
  JOIN UNPAIRED                                                               
  OPTION COPY                                                                 
  REFORMAT FIELDS=(F1:1,80,F2:1,80,?)                                         
                                  *                                           
  INREC IFOUTLEN=80,IFTHEN=(WHEN=(161,1,SS,EQ,C'B,2'),BUILD=(81,80))           
WER268A  REFORMAT STATEMENT: SYNTAX ERROR                                     
WER211B  SYNCSMF  CALLED BY SYNCSORT; RC=0000                                 
WER449I  SYNCSORT GLOBAL DSM SUBSYSTEM ACTIVE                                 
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Nic Clouston

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject:
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GaganGarg - I suggest you read through the posts on page 2 of this topic.
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Bill Woodger

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Joined: 09 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Extract matching and non matching recs using SORT
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Perhaps the "other" SyncSort site with the same release/version did have a "patch" after all?

Worth checking with SyncSort support for final resolution.
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Bill Woodger

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject:
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Dale Robertson wrote:
Pandora-Box wrote:
Is there no SYNCSORT Developer in forum thats sad :'(

A person to share us new logic and commands of the latest version will come in handy for all users


What would you like to know? I've been doing SyncSort for roughly 35 years.

[...]


This is to whom Pandora-box was referring, not just someone who has used SyncSort but prefers doing non-trivial tasks in high-level languages instead.
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