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Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view

 
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namdrino

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Joined: 12 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:23 am    Post subject: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view
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I am using ISPF (3.4 view) and trying to find the last changed date for some source code datasets and the Created and Changed columns are blank. Any idea why this would be? I would think there has to be a way to find the date the file was last modified... I can find the link edit date but that's all.
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Nic Clouston

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:37 am    Post subject:
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created and changed will be blank if the members were added by a program and not interactively. They can also be set to blank by anyone with enough ability to read manuals.
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Akatsukami

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view
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namdrino wrote:
I am using ISPF (3.4 view) and trying to find the last changed date for some source code datasets and the Created and Changed columns are blank. Any idea why this would be? I would think there has to be a way to find the date the file was last modified... I can find the link edit date but that's all.

Your statements are confusing. You mention "link edit date", which suggests that you are browsing a load library, but the date-created and timestamp-changed columns are found only in the directories of ISPF-editable PDS(E)s, which a load library (RECFM=U) is not. Please clarify your statements.
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namdrino

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view
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Akatsukami -- disregard the mention of the link edit date. I was referring to the load module created from the source code but that is really irrelevant for this discussion.

I have never seen an operating system where you can't find a date/time stamp for when a file was created or last modified? Seems like there has to be a way.
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Nic Clouston

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject:
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Are you talking about a load module or source code? The timestamp is within the load module itself. With source it depends whether ISPF statistics are on or not. Otherwise you will have to go to the SMF records as mentioned many times.
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Bill Woodger

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view
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A "member" of a PDS(E) is not a file. It is contained within a file, along with information indicating what it consists of.

I've never seen an operating system which gives a date/time for a particular byte of a file. You change one byte in a member, the file has changed. What that byte is part of, in terms of the member, is not relevant to the file itself, it is just a byte of the file.

A "source" PDS(E) has a facility for recording statistics against members within it. Whether those statistics are recorded, and whether they are accurate, for a particular member depends on a number of things.

The greatest likelihood for blanks in the details is that a "program" has been used to write the members there, and that "program" does not know about PDS(E)s or their statistics, but is just writing to a pds(e).name(member) combination which is treated as a plain old "sequential" file. It isn't a file, but that is how it is treated for processing when written like that on a DD statement.
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:44 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
I am using ISPF (3.4 view) and trying to find the last changed date for some source code datasets and the Created and Changed columns are blank. Any idea why this would be? I would think there has to be a way to find the date the file was last modified... I can find the link edit date but that's all.
Unfortunately, there is a good amount of confusion in these three lines.

Member statistics are not part of basic zOS I/O. Just writing to a member does not automatically update the directory with anything except the member name, its physical location and if the directory entry is an alias. In other words, it is not like Windows or Unix where you get time stamps for everything automatically.

To get statistics you need to run a program to create them. This was not so native for old programmers. So, if you use ISPF services you can create statistics and if you don't use that you won't get the statistics, as Nic has also pointed to. Normally ISPF, through either edit, option 3.5, or various programmable services like LMMSTATS, can update "the user data area" to contain statistics. But any program that knows how to do it (using the STOW assembler macro) can update the statistics...

Said all that (to confuse you) - I'm not sure what's your motive - but ISPF statistics should never be considered a foolproof tracking mechanism (just in case, you thought so) since they can be easily altered; let the "link-edit date" be totally out of discussion.
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namdrino

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 view
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Thanks a lot for the information -- very helpful. The original reason why I posted is that I am trying to get an idea of when the source code for a custom exit was last modified..that was the original intent.
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Akatsukami

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:36 am    Post subject: Re: Reply to: Change/create date not showing in ISPF 3.4 vie
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namdrino wrote:
Thanks a lot for the information -- very helpful. The original reason why I posted is that I am trying to get an idea of when the source code for a custom exit was last modified..that was the original intent.

Your shop ought to (but may not, I concede) have a version control system that can provide this information.

A utility such as AMBLIST can get the date that the source was last compiled from the load module; this will probably be close to the date that it was modified, save if a mass conversion from e.g., MVS to Enterprise PL/I was done.
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