Portal | Manuals | References | Downloads | Info | Programs | JCLs | Master the Mainframes
IBM Mainframe Computers Forums Index
 
Register
 
IBM Mainframe Computers Forums Index Mainframe: Search IBM Mainframe Forum: FAQ Memberlist Usergroups Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in
 

 

Performance Impact of Collectionid.* usage
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    IBMMAINFRAMES.com Support Forums -> DB2
View previous topic :: :: View next topic  
Author Message
prasun dhara

New User


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 49
Location: kolkata

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:29 pm    Post subject: Performance Impact of Collectionid.* usage
Reply with quote

Hi,

What is the performance impact if we use CollectionId.* instead of CollectionId.packagename during bind.


For example :
In the PKLIST
Collectionid.Package1
Collectionid.package2

will serv the purpose but if we use CollectionId.* then also purpose will be served. In this case what is the performance impact if all the packages are bound to a plan.

Thanks

Prasun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message

daveporcelan

Active Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 645
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

At our shop we use the construct CollectionId.*

There is no performance impact from what we can tell.

There several thousand packages in the collection.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
prasun dhara

New User


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 49
Location: kolkata

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:39 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Ok, If there is no performance impact everyone should use collectionid.* . What is the benefit of using collectionid.package1 ?

Thanks
Prasun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nic Clouston

Global Moderator


Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 1712
Location: UK

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:52 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Why not think a bit...

If I gve you a problem bind with collectioid.* and asked you to sort it out wouldn't one of the first things that you would do is find out which packages are involved?

So that is one benefit of explicitly stating the package names.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
prasun dhara

New User


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 49
Location: kolkata

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:14 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Even it is bound with COllectionid.* .. During run time error comes like

Ex. -805

Package (Subsytem.collectionid.package.Ctoken ) not found in plan

So it can be found easily for which package the problem is coming.

It will be of great help if you give an example where I can see a problem of using collectionid.*

Thanks
Prasun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daveporcelan

Active Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 645
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

We see no problem with it at all.

We have over 20,000 Plans that point to a collectionid.*.

In fact it makes things much easier.

Just say you have a batch application that has a driver and 12 subroutines. Do you really want to list each subroutine called in the pklist for the plan? I do not.

If you add a new subroutine, you would have to Bind your plan again.

If subroutine number 10 calls the new subroutine, and number 10 is called from 16 different plans, then each one must be bound again.

I see no advantage to listing each package explicitly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
don.leahy

Active Member


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 641
Location: Whitby, ON, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Our shop does not use collectionid.*, but that is a security/audit rule not a performance concern. They want to be able to tell at a glance which packages can be executed by a given Plan. It is a minor PITA for developers to remember to rebind the Plan whenever a new package is added to the list, but on the plus side it helps with impact analysis.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
prasun dhara

New User


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
Posts: 49
Location: kolkata

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

thanks don. I have understood the benefit in impact analysis part.but what is the benefit in security/audit?.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Woodger

DFSORT Moderator


Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 7223

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:32 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

don.leahy wrote:
Our shop does not use collectionid.*, but that is a security/audit rule not a performance concern. [Secuirty/Audit People] want to be able to tell at a glance which packages can be executed by a given Plan.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
daveporcelan

Active Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2006
Posts: 645
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

don.leahy also wrote:
Quote:
It is a minor PITA for developers to remember to rebind the Plan whenever a new package is added to the list


In our case it is more than a minor pain, it would be a huge pain.

We have over 30,000 packages and 20,000 plans. Keeping track of what runs where (and the success of the system dependent on it) would be a case of the tail wagging the dog.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
don.leahy

Active Member


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 641
Location: Whitby, ON, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:57 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

It's only a minor pain because we've been doing it that way since packages were first introduced. We have over 200,000 packages and 120,000 Plans in one of our DEV subsystems.

I agree that trying to retrofit this approach in a large shop would be a daunting task. I would never recommend it.

I've worked in shops that use collectionid.* and I much prefer it, even at the cost of losing a convenient impact analysis tool.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akatsukami

Global Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1738
Location: Bloomington, IL

PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 10:25 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Currently, when a SA in my shop runs a test, he binds all packages for the program(s) he is testing and adds them to his personal collection. He then creates a plan consisting of all packages in this collection.

There is pressure to have me change the execs and skeletons fabricating the JCL and control cards to bind all packages using tables in any of the (DB2) data bases that he uses in testing and add them to his personal collection. I'm trying to resist this pressure...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M David Hunter

New User


Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Location: United States

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:30 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Quote:
There is pressure to have me change the execs and skeletons fabricating the JCL and control cards to bind all packages using tables in any of the (DB2) data bases that he uses in testing and add them to his personal collection. I'm trying to resist this pressure...


Akatsukami,

My shop is wanting to set up personal collections for each SA. What is required to do this for one collection? How can I estimate the time this process would take for one SA?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dbzTHEdinosauer

Global Moderator


Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 6966
Location: porcelain throne

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:46 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

this personal stuff has always left me with a nagging question:
what does it buy you?

you still have to create a 'production' version, which has to be tested.

what do you achieve with this 'personal' approach?

in the last 20 or 25 years,
i have consulted in nearly as many shops,
and no one has ever used this approach.

IMUO, it is a waste of time and resources,
which could be better spent upgrading the skill-sets of your programmers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akatsukami

Global Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1738
Location: Bloomington, IL

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

M David Hunter wrote:
Quote:
There is pressure to have me change the execs and skeletons fabricating the JCL and control cards to bind all packages using tables in any of the (DB2) data bases that he uses in testing and add them to his personal collection. I'm trying to resist this pressure...


Akatsukami,

My shop is wanting to set up personal collections for each SA. What is required to do this for one collection? How can I estimate the time this process would take for one SA?

To the best of my knowledge, no set-up is necessary; it is sufficient to specify the collection ID on the BIND PACKAGE and BIND PLAN commands.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M David Hunter

New User


Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Location: United States

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2012 9:50 pm    Post subject: ...collection id
Reply with quote

Thanks for all the input. Great input.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akatsukami

Global Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1738
Location: Bloomington, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:17 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

dbzTHEdinosauer wrote:
this personal stuff has always left me with a nagging question:
what does it buy you?

As I may have mentioned before: in my shop any given source module may be being modified by anywhere from two to two hundred programmers, each working independently of the others. Each individual programmer has heesh (<--- note use of non-sexist pronoun) own libraries, data bases, tables, packages, etc. Doing otherwise would make things even more chaotic and less productive than they are now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
dbzTHEdinosauer

Global Moderator


Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 6966
Location: porcelain throne

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:31 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Akatsukami,

my only response is that it sounds as if the programs are too big.

but, that does not negate the necessity of handling it the way you do.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akatsukami

Global Moderator


Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1738
Location: Bloomington, IL

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 3:52 am    Post subject:
Reply with quote

dbzTHEdinosauer wrote:
Akatsukami,

my only response is that it sounds as if the programs are too big.

I agree. And if I'd begun working here in 1974 instead of 2004, I might have stopped them icon_confused.gif

Some programs (not a high proportion, to be sure, but we have over 20,000 main programs; five percent of that is too many) are comprised of dozens or hundreds of source modules; a few of thousands. Every data item access is in a module that does only that (good structured design, right? icon_rolleyes.gif ), and that subroutine is dynamically linked to hundreds of main programs...sometimes at the end of a call chain fifteen or twenty levels deep (every reusable business function is also in a separate dynamically-called subroutine...good structured design, right?)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M David Hunter

New User


Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 6
Location: United States

PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:32 pm    Post subject:
Reply with quote

Akatsukami wrote:
Each individual programmer has heesh (<--- note use of non-sexist pronoun) own libraries, data bases, tables, packages, etc. Doing otherwise would make things even more chaotic and less productive than they are now.


Akatsukami, my employer thinks we should head in this direction. A consultant told me that to do this I would need to create a collection for each programmer. But I interpret you comments as saying it's much more than this. Instead, if we have three programmers and 5 databases then I would need 15 databases and all the objects within each, and 3x the packages, etc? Is that what you are saying? Thanks for any response you may offer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
View previous topic :: :: View next topic  
Post new topic   Reply to topic    IBMMAINFRAMES.com Support Forums -> DB2 All times are GMT + 6 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 

Search our Forum:

Similar Topics
Topic Author Forum Replies Posted
No new posts What are the way we can improve CPU p... Gunapala CN DB2 10 Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:16 pm
No new posts How can amount of the Storage Usage b... esduman61 CICS 6 Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:19 pm
No new posts z/OS V2R2 Migration Impact on Existin... dexter.mozer All Other Mainframe Topics 4 Mon Feb 29, 2016 6:22 pm
No new posts DISP=(SHR,PASS) performance opinion steve-myers JCL & VSAM 1 Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:53 pm
No new posts Performance tuning of Online system bipinpeter All Other Mainframe Topics 2 Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:29 pm


Facebook
Back to Top
 
Mainframe Wiki | Forum Rules | Bookmarks | Subscriptions | FAQ | Tutorials | Contact Us