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Tivoli Automation problem
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:42 pm    Post subject: Tivoli Automation problem
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TSO Automations has recently bewildered many of my co-workers...

I'm writing this on their behalf.... If ANYONE can direct me toward a publication that can shed some light on this dilemma...would sincerely appreciate it.



Last Saturday the Automations on TSO within one of our LPARs took down the wrong system ...

upon browsing the netlog you could see that it was repeatedly selecting the wrong outstanding response, i.e. in this situation the subsystem was "Mint" (a test system) .... It kept issuing the XXChe Freeze command (it was using outstanding response numbers that "Mint" had used prior to its current outstanding reply number.

Eventually it took down the wrong system with the "xx Che Freeze" command... in this case it was "IMS"

Yes.... and it did this the next day as well.

It's as if the Automations was confused.


To top things off...it has worked fine since then, yet we are still taking precautions with workarounds.

Has anyone ever heard of this?
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enrico-sorichetti

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply to: TSO Automations problem
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Quote:
TSO Automations has recently bewildered many of my co-workers...

we too are bewildered... what is TSO automation ?

and anyway You just told us that some <strange> application issued the wrong command!

not enough to get any response other than ...
how bad, we all hope that You might fix it soon icon_cool.gif
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superk

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply to: TSO Automations problem
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Of course, the term "netlog" makes me think of Netview.
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:00 am    Post subject: what is automations....
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It's Tivoli System Automation for Z/OS ..... IBM
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:03 am    Post subject: netlog
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Netlog.... it's just browsing the "log" to see what occured in the past...

br netloga (believe) is the command
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enrico-sorichetti

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply to: TSO Automations problem
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again what kind of answer do You expect with the nothing You provided !

from Your signature
Quote:
IBM Operations
why not ask Your IBM internal support, IBM has the paid resources able to get You out of trouble
we on the other side reply on our own time and free of charge icon_cool.gif
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:25 am    Post subject:
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Hello,

Suggest you find out who has made changes to the Automation configuration. . .

If someone re-configured something incorrectly, they may have already "put it back" and "forgot" to mention this. Usually an audit trail of changes is kept to determine why thngs have happened.
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:45 am    Post subject: thanks...
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yes.... but, somehow, I don't think I'd be out of the loop.... and we'd be using "workarounds".... Your right, eventually the answer will turn up.

This post wasn't meant to instill a sense of urgency...

Put this on here "just" in case someone has seen anything like this and wanted to share...

peace brothers and sisters...
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PeterHolland

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject:
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TSO has no outstanding response, so automation has no need for that.
Problems could arise at a lot of places :

MPF
Automation tables
Automation REXX routines
Automation Policy
Wrong execution of INGREQ

So you have to find out if anything was changed in before mentioned places. That will be searching the syslogs,the netlogs and eventually
JES joblogs.
Probably the automation people can tell you something if they want to.

You will not find any publication for your problem, cause my guess is that
the problem was man made.
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Pedro

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply to: TSO Automations problem
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Quote:
To top things off...it has worked fine since then,

And apparently, worked fine up until then.

You can configure IMS to use a feature called 'Operations Manager', (OM). OM simplifies operation of your IMS systems. Rather than matching the reply number to an IMS system and keeping track of it, with OM, you can direct commands to specific IMS systems by referring to the system id.

Your Netview automation can issue IMS operator commands through the use of the REXX SPOC API provided by IMS. See 'IMS System Programming API Ref. '
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:27 pm    Post subject: .....
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Thanks for all the info... Dick, Peter and Pedro



I will update this post when we get a answer (or any/if any) or have a conclusion.
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:15 pm    Post subject: ....
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Apologize for the initial confusion with the incorrect name of the software that started this post...i.e "TSO Automations".

When actually it is "Z/OS Automations" (or trade mark name of IBM : Tivoli Automations, Version 2 Release 3, 2005).

I'd like to change the name of this POST....

grateful that it was moved to the correct section of this forum... by a veteran poster.

(again, I'll post a solution if we get one)
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:36 pm    Post subject: ....
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Well.... Seems as though we have an answer to this... "It's a "PARM", (parm - /parm/ Further-compressed form of param. This term is an IBMism, and written use is almost unknown outside IBM shops; spoken /parm/ is more widely distributed, but the synonym arg is favoured among hackers. Compare var.)

and it's not a recent change...

That is probably about the most descriptive explanation I'm going to get since I'm "an operator" of the Systems and not in the Automations group.

(and yes TSO has no outstanding response, as the "outstanding response" number is in "MVS", another trade mark name for an IBM system.)

Don't know if this "Parm" is part of *System Table etc. either...

*System Tables ("System tables uses to track the database objects. In essence, access is a set of relational database tables (the system tables) about a set of relational database tables (the user project). System tables should not be altered directly by any user. For example, do not attempt to modify system tables with DELETE, UPDATE, or INSERT statements, or user-defined triggers.

System tales are much like the tables you create in a database - with a few exceptions. First, they are identified internally as system objects so that you can differentiate your regular tables from system tables. Secondly, some system tables are inherently read-only. ...etc")

So I'm going to let this go with my public Inquiry on this forum... again, thanks you guys for the info..


Just a PS .... Sometimes when something , a Subsystem, a Server, etc., doesn't start on Automations.... or won't start with the "Autodown" command within TWS... We've had success just entering this command on the MVS Master Console: S <address>

Mike in Pennsylvania
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enrico-sorichetti

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:18 am    Post subject: Reply to: Tivoli Automation problem
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Your last post is clear as mud ( much more PC than makes no sense at all ) ...
little chance of getting any answer or favorable comments

please reread it slowly and meditate on it honestly ...

reword it in order that we might understand what You are trying to tell/ask

since You are in
Quote:
IBM Mainframe Operations
You should have realized already that many of the terms used are IBM trademarks
and for MVS, part of the os culture since the appearance of PCP, MFT, and MVT operating systems in 1966.
( a bit of time before the appearance of hackers )

the PARM keyword is part of the jcl common terminology starting from the above date
//<stepname> EXEC PGM=<pgmname>,PARM='.....'

and also for the programming side as an abbreviation for parameter

nothing to bicker about icon_cool.gif

anyway, IHMD on, somebody just told You in a very bad format that ...
some system tables ( nothing to do with database tables ) were clobbered with some invalid data/parameter
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:38 am    Post subject: ....
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Yes..... upon your request:

..."please reread it slowly and meditate on it honestly"...

This might come across as "PC"... yet..just trying to abide by the "rules".."do your homework"...


and:

..."little chance of getting any answer or favorable comments"

Maybe the wording doesn't make sense in some countries... here in the USA... when someone says, "Let it go"...or " I'm letting it go".... it means:
I'm going to forget about this...and move on... (basically)

So, in this Post I'm not looking for any response.


I would like to clarify one thing.... when I mentioned TSO (again), I meant Z/OS Automation ..... and in my final advice on starting something : I said "TWS" ..... correctly it should have said : Tivoli Automations.


From the Tivoli Automatioons SDF Main Menu: If you can't start a subsystem, or it won't start with the "UP" or "Autodown" command...
We have successfully started them on the MVS Master Console for that system with the Start Command: S (sp) <subsystem>


Ciao
Mike in Pennsylvania
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enrico-sorichetti

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 4:09 am    Post subject: Reply to: Tivoli Automation problem
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icon_redface.gif
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply to: Tivoli Automation problem
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Hi Michael,

Thanks for the followup icon_smile.gif

For your first topic, this one was a bit rough. Don't let this discourage icon_wink.gif

Eventually, we get there. . .

@Enrico,

Damn, i hate when that happens icon_cool.gif

d
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Tivoli Automation problem
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yes Dick... the flames, the flames , good thing I'm wearing my @"fire-retardant" blue jeans.....
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enrico-sorichetti

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Tivoli Automation problem
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I just reread the whole thing and I wonder why
in my last post I said icon_redface.gif , without any reason

I still think that this whole topic was just a waste of time for everybody icon_evil.gif

and the post I was referring to was just a truckload of mud !
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michael baker

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:56 pm    Post subject: .......
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AND....after further meditation about this post....JUST in case a IBM Operator reads this:

Yes..the last couple of times that that we've started a subsystem on the Master MVS Console, (outside of automations)....we did use the "basic" start command....

from the previous post:

(From the Tivoli Automations SDF Main Menu: If you can't start a subsystem, or it won't start with the "UP" or "Autodown" command...
We have successfully started them on the MVS Master Console for that system with the Start Command: S (sp) <subsystem> )...

HOWEVER.... not everything is started with that command at the Master MVS Console... for example: Here's the command for another Subsystem:
S xxxTEST,PARM1=AUTO=N

JUST SAYING... in case someone would use the wrong command...


CHECK YOUR MANUALS, in your shop....

and from my limited experience with automations.... Automations works best when things are "Automated"... doing some things manually, creates "Votes"....within Automations, and Votes require human intervention.... in other words, go by the Manual.... check with your Lead Tech., don't enter a command without checking.


Mike in Pennsylvania
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