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Is it good to learn IMS or ADABAS?

 
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rajulan

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:17 pm    Post subject: Is it good to learn IMS or ADABAS?
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Hi,

I am a Mainframe DB2 DBA. My primary skill set is DB2 DBA. I would like to learn some secondary skill set like IMS or ADABAS. I can learn ADABAS easily as I have some options. But I think it is good to add IMS skill as a secondary. Can anyone suggest me?


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rajulan

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Is it good to learn IMS or ADABAS?
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Added to the above,

What are the general activities we do as a IMS DBA? Can anyone please explain this. If I want to learn IMS dba activities, how to prepare this?
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

Quote:
I want to change my user name in this forum for my privacy. Please help me on this.
Suggest you send a PM to mcmillan (our site admin).

Quote:
What are the general activities we do as a IMS DBA?
Over the years, i've provided database support for more than 15 db products on all 3 main platforms (manframe, unix, win-boxes) and the actual dba work is quite similar. . . The mechanics and buzzwords are quite product/platform specific but can be learned with only a bit of frustration icon_smile.gif
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rajulan

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:16 am    Post subject:
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Thank you.
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Heindba

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 1:20 pm    Post subject:
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I would Say IMS is A Good Idea but be very careful as IMS and all the other DB packages are moving out while DB2 is moving up to different versions and DB Ranges.

I know some companies are now use DB9 already. icon_smile.gif
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:28 pm    Post subject:
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I'm not really in agreement with that IMS will go away soon, IBM already announced the QPP of IMS V11. So as far as version-of-release is concerned IMS is not lagging back icon_smile.gif

The complete announcement information can be found at:IBM IMS V11 Database and Transaction Servers (QPP) deliver unsurpassed application and data serving
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Heindba

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 8:53 pm    Post subject:
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Anuj Dhawan wrote:
I'm not really in agreement with that IMS will go away soon, IBM already announced the QPP of IMS V11. So as far as version-of-release is concerned IMS is not lagging back icon_smile.gif

The complete announcement information can be found at:IBM IMS V11 Database and Transaction Servers (QPP) deliver unsurpassed application and data serving


Which is quite true I actually forgot about that one though, my bad. icon_smile.gif but very few companies use Adabas as it has become way to expensive. Also another nice DB package to learn is Datacom but I wouldn't suggest it thoug, although it is very user friendly according to me, it is also on it's way out of the market. IMS still will be a good idea as there are still quite a few companies that use IMS, just needed to correct my statement icon_biggrin.gif
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Bill O'Boyle

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply to: Is it good to learn IMS or ADABAS?
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In shops I've seen customers define a DB2 Stored Procedure as well as use ODBA to access IMS, also from this same Stored Procedure.

ODBA ===> Open Database Access

OTMA ===> Open Transaction Manager Access (Protocol)

I would have to agree that IMS would be the better learning path to take than ADABAS.

Click here ===> http://www.mainframezone.com/it-management/open-access-to-ims-with-odba-and-otma

Bill
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:23 pm    Post subject:
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Depends on the products being used by potential employers.

IMS - widely used

ADABAS - is a start to learning about SAP... if you look at the job vacancies in europe and USA, SAP is very popular.
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Kjeld

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2010 3:10 am    Post subject:
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IMS is still alive and kicking. You should be aware that hierachical databases like the IMS DL/1 has commonly been abandoned for DB2 or other relational databases also in IMS applications, so there is no need to learn IMS DB unless you have a specific need.

On the other hand, being proficient in VSAM technologies comes a long way on mainframe database systems.
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dr_te_z

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 11:23 am    Post subject:
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Depends on your age I'd say. When you're relatively young and want to make your money working with mainframes for the next few decades:
YES! Learn IMS!
They/we are still around to teach you.... do not wait too long.
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 8:31 pm    Post subject:
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dr_te_z wrote:
YES! Learn IMS!
They/we are still around to teach you.... do not wait too long.
Thanks, there are few of us, for sure, who look up to you guys icon_smile.gif

Have a good one,
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prino

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 9:40 pm    Post subject:
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Recently was in Germany, where someone demonstrated using SQL to access IMS, doing not just retrieval, but also updates. Seems the current economic climate has made a lot of companies reconsider moving from IMS to DB2...
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:08 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

Many IMS implementations did not move to DB2 because of the performance issues with DB2.

If the performance of IMS/SQL is similar to the performance of navigational IMS, the push to convert those high-performance systems DB2 may fade. . .
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
someone demonstrated using SQL to access IMS
I believe, it's known as Shadow's Interface for IMS/DB, did they mention about something like that? Did they talk about IMS-DB2-store procedures too?
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prino

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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:20 pm    Post subject:
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Anuj Dhawan wrote:
Quote:
someone demonstrated using SQL to access IMS
I believe, it's known as Shadow's Interface for IMS/DB, did they mention about something like that? Did they talk about IMS-DB2-store procedures too?


It's not that, just wait, and hopefully, see.
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Anuj Dhawan

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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 6:22 pm    Post subject:
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Sure, i look forward to that.

have a good one, icon_smile.gif
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Kjeld

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:00 am    Post subject:
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Anuj Dhawan wrote:
Quote:
someone demonstrated using SQL to access IMS
I believe, it's known as Shadow's Interface for IMS/DB, did they mention about something like that? Did they talk about IMS-DB2-store procedures too?

I found a website marketing a product called z/Shadow providing a client db connection service to both IMS/DB, DB2 and some other db products, using an SQL based calling interface.

The product is allegedly an alternative to accessing, say, IMS databases through IMS message application services from decentralized server platforms.

Dick Scherrer wrote:
Many IMS implementations did not move to DB2 because of the performance issues with DB2.


I have not heard that DB2 should still be a slow performer compared to native IMS DB. But choosing a database system is not just a matter of performance. Hierarchical database modelling is becoming a lost discipline, and products like the abovementioned are just an example of a tool to circumvent the need for mainframe application programmers with IMS skills, and to keep legacy database systems alive.
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject:
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Hello,

Quote:
But choosing a database system is not just a matter of performance.
No, most of these decisions are not made with any major consideration of performance - as long as the choice can do the job. Many larger systems could not run on db2 - the system could not do a day's work in a day. And volumes were increasing not decreasing. . .

Usually (from what i've seen) the choice of a database system is not based on technical merit of any kind. . .

As the hardware and the operating system as well as DB2 are from IBM it is to be expected that someday DB2 perfomance will not be an issue icon_wink.gif

As several learned folks have said over the years - "If DB2 was not an IBM product, if would have been withdrawn years ago".
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