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same TRANID initiated multiple times

 
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lokesh ranjan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: same TRANID initiated multiple times
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Hi,

I have following scenario and I want to make sure that it will work efficiently:

It will initiate trn1 multiple times for each 150 accounts processed.
Will it be overhead on CICS and is it feasible scenario to execute same tranid for each 150 accounts which may cause same tranid to be running parallely if previous tranid is not complete.

loop-para.

logic for population of variables.

If ws-acct-counter = 150
exec cics start
tranid (trn1)
.......
NOCHECK
end-exec
move +1 to ws-acct-counter
go to loop-para
end-if

add +1 to ws-acct-counter
go to loop-para

loop-para-exit.
exit.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:02 pm    Post subject:
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duh,
will multiple concurrent transactions involve more cics resources
than 1 transaction?

what kind of answer are you looking for?

not only that, you for sure will have to contend with resource contention.

batch processing in an online environment idiots answer to everything.

what is the problem of just processing each account, one at a time,
if you are not going to do the processing in batch - where you should.
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lokesh ranjan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject:
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Resource contention is not an issue because it will process next 150 accounts.

requirement is to update all impacted accounts in online to replace batch process.

It will have input of 150 accounts in next transaction(trn1) it will update records in different files one by one by random read update.

my concern is with initiating trasid in loop which may go parallel if previous 150 accounts are not processed before initiating next transid (trn1).
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject:
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if your goal is just to have 1 active transaction,
then get rid of the START API call and just process the accounts.
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lokesh ranjan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for your time.

but still I have following query:
will CICS be able to handle multiple active transaction (same tranid) without any overhead and how much can be the limit.

will each next tranid (trn1) be able to retrieve correct record for processing?

I need a rough idea.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:35 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
will CICS be able to handle multiple active transaction (same tranid)

yes

Quote:
without any overhead

you are not serious are you. of course there will be the normal overhead of each task

Quote:
how much can be the limit.

not an authority here, but it would depends on your CICS system

Quote:
will each next tranid (trn1) be able to retrieve correct record for processing?


well, that depends on what data you supply the STARTed Trans.
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lokesh ranjan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 3:38 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks Dick for answering my doubts.
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Robert Sample

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:38 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
will CICS be able to handle multiple active transaction (same tranid)
You have got to be joking. When 100 (or 1000) people sign onto a CICS region and all of them enter the same tranid to start their work, do you think CICS is going to have a problem? This is what CICS is deigned to do!

I wonder if your design has been through review, though. How do you ensure each START picks up the right 150 in sequence? Why is the 150 limit there in the first place? If these transactions run unattached to a terminal, and use things like TS queues, have you thought through the requirements to ensure each has a unique name? If this runs attached to a terminal, how long will that terminal be out of service? What happens if CICS comes down after 75 of the 150 have been processed?
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:49 pm    Post subject:
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as you have only provided your solution to a problem that we know nothing of,
it is hard to provide suggestions.

one thing: If you read something from somewhere and then do a START tran you lose all audit control - as Robert suggested.

look up ATI, which is (short form) a queue built of trigger records to indicate the account to be processed and you would have your trn1 program triggered by the queue item. That way if CICS goes down - or your program abends - the item would still be on the queue.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:11 pm    Post subject:
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from the CICS Application Programmer Guide 5.1.2 How tasks are started and
a direct reference to 6.5.4 Automatic transaction initiation (ATI)
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lokesh ranjan

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:44 pm    Post subject:
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Hi Robort/Dick: The design is under process but similar design is already coded but I was not sure it will work or not.

Quote:
How do you ensure each START picks up the right 150 in sequence?


The same I wanted to confirm.....
even if it will not pick up same while Retrieving it will not create any issue for data update processing in my design because each record is unique.

I hope separate memory will be assigned for each task initiated and each task would retrieve data from that memory.
(I am not using and TSQ, TDQ to pass data. data will be passed through working storage variable)

Following command is there to initiate trn1:
EXEC CICS START
TRANSID ('TRN1')
FROM (WS-xxxx-RECORD)
LENGTH (LENGTH OF WS-xxxx-RECORD)
RTRANSID (EIBTRNID)
RTERMID (EIBTRMID)
NOCHECK
END-EXEC.

I was worried about loop part. suppose I get 15,000 records to be processed then loop will initiate 15000/150 = 100 transactions (trn1) within fraction of seconds and if each transaction will retrieve their own memory I don't think it will create any problem, apart from overload in CICS.

Note: I am thinking a single CICS application program without any task initiation may be a better solution.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:11 pm    Post subject:
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lokesh,

as I said before, you have a solution that you have decided on and only want us to say that it is ok.

well, I already said my piece - I would not do it your way.

by the way, a START Task is task initiation.
and 'apart from overload in CICS' is a problem.

using a queue would mean that the data is recoverable and you can
control it to have only 5 - 10 active tasks (transactions in your terms)
draining the queues.

apparently you have no audit oversight at your shop.
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Robert Sample

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:46 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Note: I am thinking a single CICS application program without any task initiation may be a better solution.
Since a program requires a transaction, and a transaction must be initiated by a task at some point, good luck in achieving this.

You're basically taking a batch process and moving it to CICS (which is a transaction processor, not a batch processor). Anything you do will have potential problems in CICS since it is not designed for batch processing. There are ways to mitigate the impact but since you've decided upon your approach and want validation, not solutions, all we can do is tell you good luck. Your approach may or may not work depending upon your coding skills. It will certainly have an impact upon the other users of the region, and possibly upon all users of the LPAR you are running in -- again, depending upon your coding skills. This impact could be minor or it could make the LPAR unusable to all others -- only time will tell.
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dick scherrer

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:05 am    Post subject:
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Hello,

Quote:
requirement is to update all impacted accounts in online to replace batch process.
What business requirement determined to move a standard batch process online? Online, kinda by definition, is meant for user interaction - not a batch process.

If the requirement in part is to de-stabliize the online environment, running lots of online batch will surely do it.

If this is already running in batch, why try to move it online?

Quote:
will CICS be able to handle multiple active transaction (same tranid) without any overhead and how much can be the limit.
CICS is designed to handle many, many concurrent online transactions. Online "Batch" nearly always negatively impacts the environment. It may also introduce data contention issues between this batch process and online processes. It will be interesting to see what happens when this approach causes data contention/integrity problems with the online.

Maybe there is a good reason why they run separately now. . .
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Earl Haigh

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:57 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
requirement is to update all impacted accounts in online to replace batch process.



you might want to consider a vendor software solution that can access
CICS from within your batch COBOL programs.


>>> www.batchcics.com
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