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One Honest Negative Feedback

 
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Debabrata Pruseth

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Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Location: Pune , India

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:13 am    Post subject: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Whenever there is any new post in the forum , in most of the cases , the moderators and the super moderators are very quick to reply back their perfect wisdomproof answer . I will suggest they should show some restraint and have a buffer time before replying back to any post , so that other simple mainframe fellowbeings get a chance to burn their grey cells and reply to the topic . The moderators and super moderators can then give their final say on it and drop the bomb.

In this way the forum will be more lively and democratic ( i think so ) .


PS: It's a suggestion . It might have happened that this process was tried before and failed miserably in keeping with the philosophy and guidelines of the forum. IF so please ignore this post .
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Frank Yaeger

DFSORT Moderator


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 7130
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject:
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So you want to change this board from "ExpertForum" to "Wildguess Forum"?

Seems to me we already get enough guesses ("wild" and otherwise) due to the delay caused by time differences. In my opinion, wild guesses just waste peoples' time - they waste the time of the OP who is looking for a good answer and they waste the time of the experts who have to correct the wild guesses.

There's nothing stopping any "simple mainframe fellowbeings" from "burning their grey cells" by working the problem before they look at anyone elses answer. They can then see if their solution matches the experts' solution. If it's better, they can post it.

Kolusu and I personally answer DFSORT/ICETOOL "how-to" questions every day on six help boards and via direct e-mail. We spend enough time correcting peoples' guesses already without having that be a specific aim of the board.

Judging by the number of times people include the word "urgent" in their posts, I don't think they really want to wait for the experts to weigh in.

And in cases where Kolusu or I don't answer questions quickly (like when we'reon vacation or really busy with development work) people send us direct e-mails or private messages asking us to help immediately.

Just a different perspective from one of the Moderators.
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Robert Sample

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Joined: 06 Jun 2008
Posts: 7904
Location: Bellevue, IA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:27 am    Post subject:
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I don't think moderators offer "perfect wisdomproof" answers -- I know mine are not! The difference I see, most of the time, is that moderators offer manual references to resolve issues or suggest code that their experience (and testing) shows a solution to the problem.

If there's no moderator input, fairly often the posts deteriorate into an argument over different answers with no real guidance to the original poster about why one answer is better than another (if, indeed, it is).
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Frank Yaeger

DFSORT Moderator


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 7130
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
I don't think moderators offer "perfect wisdomproof" answers -- I know mine are not!


Agreed. I would certainly never claim that my answers are "perfect". But I do try to give efficient, tested answers. Not everybody does. But my situation is admittedly a bit different as I'm a developer of the product I give answers about so I know the internals as well as the externals.
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Terry Heinze

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Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 1238
Location: Richfield, MN, USA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:24 am    Post subject:
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Debabrata,
I'm sure your suggestion was well intended but both Frank and Robert have very valid points. I know Frank has had to spend a lot of time "undoing" many wrong solutions. As far as I've noticed he has had to double-check or verify every solution offered in his area of expertise, in addition to providing solutions to the unanswered questions.
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Debabrata Pruseth

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Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Location: Pune , India

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject: One Honest Negative Feedback
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The reason i asked this question was i am in a dilemma and not finding a proper solution . As you all have been moderating the forum for such a long time i would like to have your guidance on the following issue:

We have started a mainframe community in our organisation's knowledge portal and i am one of the moderators. The community is a success with a lot of associates sharing their best practices , assets , knowledge repositories and reference materials on mainframe domain. However there is virtually no Forum Culture . As Frank said

Quote:
people send us direct e-mails or private messages asking us to help immediately.


The case is same with us . How do i bring a forum culture within the community and encourage everyone to use the forum features of the knowledge portal . Shall i , when someone sends a direct mail or personal message for a query , i deny him and ask him to put it in the forum and then only i will reply it . Is this a right way to initiate a forum culture .

What is your suggestion regarding development of a good forum culture.
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Quote:
. . . i deny him and ask him to put it in the forum and then only i will reply it.
Is this a right way to initiate a forum culture .
Does your management want this done as a forum? If so, then management should "send a memo" telling people that they need to post their questions via this forum. It may not be a good idea to deny people service until there is proper direction from management.

If all questions are to be asked via this forum, how is priority determined? Anyone with a question/problem believes they need an answer (and usually quickly icon_smile.gif ). The priorities of the organization will not always match the priority of individuals.

I believe that having an internal forum to share info/ideas is a very good idea. I also believe that "help desk" and Production Operations issues need a "trouble ticket" type of environment.

Just my $.02,

d
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 6966
Location: porcelain throne

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject:
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Quote:
Just my $.02,


Dick,

you would reflect your worth with €.02 since the US government has managed to shove the US economy in the garbagecan.
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Hi Dick,

Which is why my input is only worth $.02. . . icon_smile.gif

d
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expat

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Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 8593
Location: Back in jolly old England

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:19 pm    Post subject:
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When a member of the forum sends a PM asking for something, 99.9% of the time I will ask them to post the topic on the forum so that

a) All other members can benefit from the solutions offered, and that most certainly includes myself
b) Opens the topic to others who may have had different experiences and methods of resolving the same problem.


Quote:
I don't think moderators offer "perfect wisdomproof" answers -- I know mine are not!

The responses of the moderators and senior forum members are based upon not only knowledge of the problem, but also a whole load of years experience in dealing with them.

I believe that when we offer a solution based upon previous experience it hopefully educates the other forum members by allowing them to see how we resolved the problem, allowing the members to hopefully analyse why we resolved something in a particular way so that they will possibly learn from our experience without having to go through the trial and error stages that we already have done.
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dbzTHEdinosauer

Global Moderator


Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 6966
Location: porcelain throne

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:50 pm    Post subject:
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http://ibmmainframes.com/viewtopic.php?p=212081&sid=e5b83170cfda19804c64259589d40e8a#212081
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Debabrata Pruseth

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Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Location: Pune , India

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Thank you all for your kind guidance . I will discuss the same with other moderators of our MAINFRAME community ( the one i referred ) .

[quote="dick scherrer"]
Quote:
Does your management want this done as a forum?


The management owns the knowledge portal of the organization . Associates are free to form relevalent communities and share and propagate knowledge in their own way as far they don't violate any copyright issues or moral obligations . We created a MAINFRAME community for the mainframe projects and it's doing quite well . People are sharing best practices , experiences and knowledge repositories but not discussing in FORUMs , the entire culture is missing and we the moderators of this community are just scratching our head to head start with something .

Most of the ideas and motivation for our MAINFRAME community we took from this ibmmainframe forum only.
Dick you definitely owe more than $0.02 or €.02 . Lot more :-)
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dbzTHEdinosauer

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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 6966
Location: porcelain throne

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:53 pm    Post subject:
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are owed more
passive case (when subject receives the action of the verb)
is normally formed with a variant of the verb TO BE
and the action verb.

'are owed more'. Dick receives from someone.
'owe more'. Dick needs to give to someone.
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Anuj Dhawan

Senior Member


Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 6258
Location: Mumbai, India

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:16 pm    Post subject:
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You must be having "Forum Rules" section in your mainframe forum - was not that cirulated?

And because you want to encourage people, may be you need to get little lenient in start - if some one sends you a mail...start a thread by your own referencing that mail in that thread and in post script add, "please avoid sending personal mails".
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:32 pm    Post subject:
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Thanks for the kind words. . . icon_redface.gif

Quote:
The management owns the knowledge portal of the organization . Associates are free to form relevalent communities
Sounds like the management has given permission, but not necessarily direction.

Unless/until the management directs that questions should be posted via your internal forum, i'd be cautious about denying service to e-mails (as this has been normal until now?).
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Debabrata Pruseth

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Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 59
Location: Pune , India

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Yes Yes .

We are trying our best here . I hope to give you a positive update regarding the Forum Culture in our community in a month time .
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Frank Yaeger

DFSORT Moderator


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 7130
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:15 pm    Post subject:
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Debabrata,

My two pennies:

We have internal Forums within IBM. Their use is optional. Many people use them and others don't. Many people are not even aware they exist despite efforts to publicize them. Some people like using Forums and others prefer direct e-mail or the phone or (fill in the blank). I doubt you will get "most" people to use Forums rather than direct e-mail (or some other more direct method) unless you force them to by making it the only way they can get answers, which may or may not be something you want to do.

I think Anuj's suggestion for starting threads from e-mails you get is a good way to try to get your Forums going.
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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Good luck icon_smile.gif

We will be interested to hear your update,

d
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PeterHolland

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Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 2422
Location: Netherlands, Amstelveen

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:38 am    Post subject:
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Im just wondering about people claiming they are * engineers asking questions they shouldnt have to ask if they are REAL engineers.
So i can understand the RANTING and the answers of NO, YES, RTFM of some people here.
In real life a lot of questions here from engineers (?), they would be burned, and i mean in my work environment. But then i and my pals
did some ( a lot ) of self education. Looking for manuals etc. before asking questions.
The fun was after we killed an OS people started to ask us how we did that.

Im writing this after happy hour, so excuse me if i did hurt some people.
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dick scherrer

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Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply to: One Honest Negative Feedback
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En vino, veritas. . .
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