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Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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Do we need a separate Forum for Students and freshers
Yes
62%
 62%  [ 744 ]
Not Now, We can manage them here
16%
 16%  [ 200 ]
No, Not at all
10%
 10%  [ 128 ]
I don't care
1%
 1%  [ 16 ]
Close this stupid poll
8%
 8%  [ 102 ]
Total Votes : 1190

Author Message
mcmillan

Site Admin


Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1202
Location: India

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 8:02 pm    Post subject: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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Do we really need a separate Forum for Mainframe Students and freshers?

Quote:
You may remember the days when jobseekers used to post their resumes in this site. But after creating mainframeindia.com, we don't get resumes here.....


Yes, We can control SPAM and Adds in the forum by strict validations in user registration. But we can't avoid students. Instead of deleting their posts and banning them, why don't we redirect them to another Forum?

So what's your opinion about creating a separate forum for students and mainframe beginners/freshers where there is No Hard Rules, No Ban and even No warnings. Will it work?
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:08 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

For my $.02, i could maybe see another selection on our "Home" page, but would not think a new url was needed. We have "Interview Questions" - we might also have something that was for students. If "student status" was part of the profile, a rule might be set that they could read anything, but could only reply or post in their forum.

[rant]One caution is that care would be needed so that we don't "do the homework" for someone - i guess i'm too old-fashioned (expecting folks to write their own term papers rather than downloading them, develop/debug the coding assignments, etc icon_smile.gif .[/rant]

Actually, working thru the code is (IMHO) the best way to learn. I believe we could/should be mentors/tutors, but not solution providers for students.
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enrico-sorichetti

Global Moderator


Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 10203
Location: italy

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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Just another 2? of thoughts

as far as I am concerned I do not mind answering simple and/or beginner's questions,
as long as they show willingness to learn ;

The main issue here is "HOMEWORK" "STUPID" and ill posed questions,
and quite often a beginner's question is better posed:-)

Also but that' s a higher order problem,
forums like this one should be used as an help for individual growth,
not as no charge consulting/training services for companies with a poor, <add more derogatory adjectives as You please> organizations

regards

e.s
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jacheter

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Joined: 15 Oct 2005
Posts: 10
Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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I actually enjoy reading student level questions. I am a firm believer in the concept of "no such thing as a stupid question". Personally, I no longer pose my questions here because I invariably get a rude response from the moderator about researching first. I use this site mainly to research the references and manuals but to get answers to specific questions that I really need, I go directly to my peers.
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Frank Yaeger

DFSORT Moderator


Joined: 15 Feb 2005
Posts: 7130
Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:57 pm    Post subject:
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Quote:
Personally, I no longer pose my questions here because I invariably get a rude response from the moderator about researching first.


Please don't paint all of the Moderators with the same brush. Although I wouldn't consider a response about researching first "rude", I have never actually given that response since I prefer to show by example. I figure the people who want to learn will use the example as a starting point for research/understanding, and the people who don't want to learn won't do any research regardless of what I say.
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syed-sameer-ahmed
Warnings : 2

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Joined: 22 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Location: Bangalore

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 10:50 am    Post subject:
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I think it would be fine and good,if examples are given with the answers.
Mainframe is a very vast field researching for it on the net gives a lumpsum result,which beginners find perplexed and hectic to find out that answers.

Just in our forum if we search for specific question we do get lot of related topics with/without the required results.[/code]
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dick scherrer

Site Director


Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 19270
Location: Inside the Matrix

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject:
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Hello,

Yes, i believe sometimes an example is a very good thing.

Personally, i (and several other moderators/senior members) feel that we are to help people learn and not to do their work for them.

The net might be a great way to learn new win-based things and some unix things, but i think it is better served as reference material rather than teaching/learning material for mainframes. IMHO.

The good news is that on the net there are these forums, where people with requests may get different opinions about their concerns.
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Bitneuker

CICS Moderator


Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 1105
Location: The Netherlands at Hole 19

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 12:43 am    Post subject:
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Hi (almost back),

As Dick wrote I agree in some cases examples could help out. However, an example is of use only when you first studied the materials/manuals trying to understand the business and after you fail to understand get to the forum and post the question. I mostly advise a TS (topic starter) to follow the first link in my signature which most of the times leads them to the answer to their question. By reading and studying one not only learns what the solution is but also (which is most important) learns to comprehend the basics behind the stuff; bits (one and zero) and the structures. When we old people started mainframe developping all we had were collegues (even older than we were) and manuals where it was all explained. Nowadays my feeling is newbees look for solutions which they thankfully adopt (even when wrong) without understanding the principles behind it. This may be verified by overlooking the contradicting answers at topics. Some posts include remarks like 'rude' but imho I rarely read the statement to RTFM; just the advise to look into any (fine) manual. And if a TS really tried to follow advise but fails to find the solution he will always get some code from me.

My conclusion: yes open a separate form for students in order to do their homework with fellow students. For freshers I recommand a separate forum where they can discuss their issues and if final advice is needed they can get to the standard forum. But the main issue is: first try to understand by reading and once you can't get it clear post your question clear and specific. But keep in mind that homework topics belong at school and are almost ever recognised as thus.
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William Thompson

Global Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2006
Posts: 3158
Location: Tucson AZ

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 3:11 am    Post subject:
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Bitneuker wrote:
Hi (almost back)
Welcome back (almost?).....
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timburkart

New User


Joined: 17 Mar 2007
Posts: 30
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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I don't think another forum is needed and I strongly concur with a previous remark that no question is stupid. We all need a starting point and the veterans (experts) weren't born with their knowledge.

I would like to impress upon the newbies (students, freshers, et. al.) that when they ask questions to please include information like:

* requirements
* context
* sample data if possible
* rationale for question

Quite often it is difficult to intelligently answer a one line question. When additional information is provided with the question, more complete responses can be given. Perhaps an exact solution or an alternative. The more information in the question the better the answer.

Best to all!

tim
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khamarutheen

Active Member


Joined: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 680
Location: NJ

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2007 11:35 pm    Post subject: Re:Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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Hi mac,

I too says that no separate forum needed for students or freshers !!! icon_smile.gif Hope everyone is helpful and using our forum in right way !!! may be some Dumpers on our list we keep banning them and warning !!! Even i joined as a student in this forum and now a prof icon_wink.gif This forum helps me a lot when i start using in right way and grown up now ... So if we direct them in right way and they are aware of our forum rules then should be okay with this forum itself... icon_cool.gif

I dont remember whether the welcome mail and the forum rules mail goes to new joinies or not?? If so no probs !!! if that is not the case just try to implement in future and users will get bore to read all the full paper rules at the first time since all websites give their own rules !!! so give some highlight points especially like not to post contact details and other things in a summary rule and do the same !!!

We can think some alternate way to avoid the students or freshers mis behaviors instead of launching a separate forum !!!
icon_rolleyes.gif
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Rajesh Patil

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Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 3
Location: Pune

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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I think yes, it will very easier for both Students ,fresher and experianced person to search jobs....

Rajesh
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peerless_guy4u

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Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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In my opinion Yes there should be sperate forum for fresher !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
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pras_jj

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Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1
Location: chennai

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2007 7:00 pm    Post subject:
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absolutely needed
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nagarajit

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Joined: 18 May 2007
Posts: 3
Location: chennai

PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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Yes...I request u to make a seperate forum for reshers
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praddu999

New User


Joined: 25 Apr 2007
Posts: 1
Location: banglore

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:58 pm    Post subject:
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yes a seperate forum is needed to distinguish between learners and scholore .those who are strong and perfect in the subject can help those guys in students forum by their replies and answers.that will be the best way when u r a fresher .scholarly questions might make freshers more confused so go on with separate forum
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mcmillan

Site Admin


Joined: 18 May 2003
Posts: 1202
Location: India

PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:21 pm    Post subject:
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Yes, we are working on that.

We will announce a new forum for students & freshers soon, where there is no WARN/BAN...
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TG Murphy

Active User


Joined: 23 Mar 2007
Posts: 149
Location: Ottawa Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:50 am    Post subject:
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Anyone who participates in this forum is obviously not adverse to helping others.

However, some times the best help we can give is to encourage people to use the manuals and conduct their own experiments. People who make this a habit will thrive.

I don't mind seeing the stupid questions. We all ask stupid questions. It's the lazy questions that annoy.

I think it is William that handles these the right way: A link into the manual that answers the lazy question. Points them in the right direction. You can lead a horse to water...
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expat

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Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 8593
Location: Back in jolly old England

PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:22 am    Post subject:
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TG - beautifully put. Well done !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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vamsee_aadina

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Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 1
Location: Hyderabad

PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Re: Do we need a separate Forum for Students and fresher
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mcmillan wrote:
Do we really need a separate Forum for Mainframe Students and freshers?

Quote:
You may remember the days when jobseekers used to post their resumes in this site. But after creating mainframeindia.com, we don't get resumes here.....


Yes, We can control SPAM and Adds in the forum by strict validations in user registration. But we can't avoid students. Instead of deleting their posts and banning them, why don't we redirect them to another Forum?

So what's your opinion about creating a separate forum for students and mainframe freshers where there is No Rules, No Ban and even No warnings. Will it work?
Quote:
Code:
[list][list=][img][/img][right][left][url][/url][/left][/right][color=darkred][/color][size=7][/size]


yes, its very very important.........

plz do that as early as possible...

bcoz most of the people hu ll visit all these forums are freshers rather exp........
[/list][/list]
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